Irish schoolchildren to learn about atheism

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  1. Hawthorne Abendsen Number One Epic Sloth

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    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/26/atheism-to-be-taught-irish-schoolchildren

    Up to 16,000 primary-school pupils in multi-denominational sector will learn about atheism, and others will be offered courses on the internet and smartphone apps
    [IMG]
    Richard Dawkins' The Magic of Reality is a key text in the first ever atheist curriculum for Irish schoolchildren. Photograph: Murdo MacLeod for the Guardian
    In a historic move that will cheer Richard Dawkins, lessons about atheism are to be taught in Ireland's primary schools for the first time.
    The lessons on atheism, agnosticism and humanism for thousands of primary-school pupils in Ireland will be drawn up by Atheist Ireland and multi-denominational school provider Educate Together, in an education system that the Catholic church hierarchy has traditionally dominated.
    Up to 16,000 primary schoolchildren who attend the fast-growing multi-denominational Irish school sector will receive tuition about atheism as part of their basic introduction course to ethics and belief systems, including other religions.
    From September 2014 children could be reading texts such as Dawkins' The Magic of Reality, his book aimed at children, according to Atheist Ireland.
    But Michael Nugent, Atheist Ireland's co-founder, stressed that all primary-school pupils, including the 93% of the population who attend schools run by the Catholic church, can access their atheism course on the internet and by downloading an app on smartphones. He said these would be advertised and offered to all parents with children at primary schools in the state.
    "There will be a module of 10 classes of between 30 to 40 minutes from the ages of four upwards. It is necessary because the Irish education system has for too long been totally biased in favour of religious indoctrination. And if parents whose kids are in schools under church control want to opt their kids out of learning religion (as is their right these days) then they can use our course as an alternative for their children to study," he said.
    Nugent added: "Religion isn't even taught properly as an objective subject with various religions and their origins examined and explained. The teaching is to create faith formation first, not objective education. We see our course as a chance for young Irish children to get an alternative view on how the world works."
    Jane Donnelly, a member of Atheist Ireland and a parent of two children in an Irish secondary school, welcomed the creation of an atheism alternative for Irish pupils.
    "I opted my two girls out of religious education classes and they were told to go to the library and find a philosophy book to read during RE instead. The range of philosophy books was very limited so I sent them into school each day with a copy of Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion for them to read."
    Religion, education and the Irish Republic

    • God is omnipresent in the 1937 Irish constitution, with article 6.1 stating: "All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people"; and article 44.1 noting: "The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion."
    • Since the foundation of the republic, the Catholic church controls up to 93% of the state's 3,200 primary schools.
    • The Catholic church's near monopoly of influence in education means that the ultimate power in each school is the local Catholic bishop.
    • In Dublin the city's archbishop, Diarmuid Martin, is patron of about 470 primary schools. He is responsible for the management of the ethos of those schools, for senior appointments and is the one who can be sued when legal action takes place.
    • The Irish taxpayer, and not the church, pays the bills for all the schools the hierarchy controls.
    • The Irish education minister, Ruairi Quinn, has promised "the most radical change in primary education in Ireland since the state was founded in the 1920s" by taking the power of the church from running almost all schools in the state and putting it into the hands of elected governors. So far his reforms have not begun in earnest.
    • This article was amended on 27 September 2013 to clarify that pupils in multi-denominational schools will learn about atheism as part of the wider curriculum covering ethics, beliefs and religion. Atheists will not be teaching children that God does not exist, as originally stated, rather, children will be educated about atheism, including the atheist belief that God does not exist.
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  2. Celt A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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    "From September 2014 children could be reading texts such as Dawkins' The Magic of Reality, his book aimed at children, according to Atheist Ireland."

    Yet another reason for home schooling imho. I've found that anytime (makes no difference if it's religious indoctrination of some sort, atheism, etc.) you observe something being "aimed" at a child there's always a hidden agenda. An whether it's a good, or bad agenda is up to the parents to decide not "the system".
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  3. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    This kind of "atheism" is a cult.
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  4. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    Take your filthy Liberalism as shove it.
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  5. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    I'll tell you were the decision ought to lie, and where it has necessarily lain in each and every civilised age: with the spiritual leadership, who create civilisation and mold high culture according to the dictates of the divine will.
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  6. Roy Fokker Forum Veteran

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    Saint Patrick wept.
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  7. Celt A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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    LmIrishassoff!!! You ignorant wretch I'm quite Conservative. Go back to playing w/your sodding dolls freak show. :lol:

    I stand by what I previously said, it should be up to the parents what sort of schooling their children receive not some system be it religious, or otherwise.

    Homeschooling is beginning to look like one of the only ways decent folk can keep "systems" from filling their children's heads w/whatever someone else deems most appropriate.

    If morals, and proper behavior are not taught in the home religious schools, OR schools of science will not suffice. Strong parents, strong morals, instilling spinal fortitude along w/proper ideals of what is right, and what is wrong begins at home you sickening, decadent freak.

    Take your decadence you attempt to hide behind flowery rhetoric on here, and shove that. :ireland:
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  8. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    No, I'm afraid you aren't.


    That is a notion of liberalism. Consequently, you are not a conservative.


    The liberal ideas at the heart of your thought, formed from a resentment of the order of authority from above, are showing through. The problem in our age lies not with systems as such, but with a system that is nothing but an invention of atheistic men wallowing like pigs with their snouts in the mud.

    I said nothing of religious schools, or of who ought to do the teaching for that matter. My point was directed at who and what ought to decide how a child is reared. For traditional society that decision absolutely does not lie with the parents, or with any other individual, contrary to the assertions of your American "conservatism" (which is actually just old-fashioned liberalism). It lies with God, and with the king and priesthood who are his spokesmen. Your running off at a tangent concerning something that has not even been raised by me, thinking that you are thereby contradicting what I have said, shows just what a dimwit you are.



    Morality is determined the transcendent, and the correct ideas of right and wrong are instilled in a culture at large through the men who represent its tradition on earth. Parents who have themselves been reared in such a culture may be the ones to raise a child to live correctly, but that process most certainly does not begin at home.

    A liberal telling me about decadence ...
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  9. Man Against Time Black Hole Melchizedek

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    You're right, and the ideologue with an agenda is typically some adulated nerd who doesn't have any children.
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  10. Angroid CyberSperg 1138

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    Atheism is not necessarily a cult. Atheists are not necessarily cult-followers.

    BUT

    Dorkins & his merry band of "Atheists" are very obviously operating an *Atheist Cult & Church and teachings which lead back and can be traced back to them are cult-based brainwashing.

    Learn to distinguish this difference, folks.

    *Dorkins Church of Atheism
    http://thebeerbarrel.net/threads/uk-atheist-church-expanding-to-us-australia.24123/
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  11. Akingu "Your Assholiness"

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    yeah, SOME people give atheism a bad name.
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  12. Celt A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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    Your insane rant hardly rates a reply since your "facts" are nothing more than your conceited (quite conceited I will add) opinions.

    People quite often have their own opinions (no more no less no matter what you might bitch, cry, and moan over) regarding God(s). As per kings, or priesthoods I acknowledge neither I look at things in my own way in my own time. Subscribing to the mindset of many who are currently accepting niggers, kikes, etc. as equals in their "respective" houses of worship is suicidal. Humanity always has, and always will form their own opinions of how to worship, how to rear children, what political system they wish to subscribe to (not necessarily live under) etc. If you, or any"thing" else such as you wish to dream your pathetic little dreams about imposing such upon humanity...:lol:

    Learning begins at home whether a lunatic such as you wishes to acknowledge such, or not. Systems will not properly rear a child it is the parents responsibility to rear their children properly. I've raised a few, and did a good job of it whether a wretched freak such as you thinks so or not is of no consequence to me. I'd hazard a guess, and say you've raised none at all nor even tried the way you rant out your opinions while attempting to impose them upon others.

    A person who is able to think outside the box while learning right from wrong rather than submit to brainwashing stands a far better chance of being a good parent than some mindless wretch (you being a fine example from your insane ranting) who blindly submits to the will of others. Kings, Queens, etc. are human beings w/human frailties along w/select priesthoods of various religions. Certain Catholics, Baptists, etc. are good, and decent folk others (such as you obviously) blindly follow dictates. To know how to differentiate while doing ones best to raise a child is what counts not blindly following the dictates of others.

    Submit freak like the lemming you obviously are while I conservatively stand back from the edge, and allow you as well as other hypocrites like you to run over. :lol:
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  13. Gracefell Forum Veteran

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    F off!
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  14. Aces High Forum Veteran

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    From reading the article it sounds like atheism will make up a very small part of the lessons. Its part of a wider program to educate these children in various subjects including other religions.......:jew:.........and anyway its aimed at multi denominational schools and not catholic schools where the church still holds a 93% monopoly on the kids.


    Whats really disturbing imo is that they arent teaching these young children about their own celtic culture and origins, a nation like Ireland that is rich in celtic history should be a centre of learning for young minds regarding their rich celtic ancestry.

    Instead they are teaching them this horeshit and even worse the catholic church is ramming a semitic jewish religion down the young childrens throats..........which has nothing to do with the Irish or anyone else in Europe for that matter historically or culturally.
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  15. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    I am quite aware of the fact that the modes of European life and thought prior to the process of modernisation, and particularly those of the Middle Ages, qualify as insanity to people like you.

    Yawn. The same can be said of any proposition expressed by anyone, which is of no consequence to its truth. Ethics is, quite generally, opinion, while what I have said about mere facts of history is not disputed. We know on which side of the Assembly your kind sat, and it wasn't with the sort who might have read de Maistre.


    God and gods are not metaphysically equivalent terms to be conflated with a bracketed 's'. These truisms of yours are, however, becoming tiring. Nowhere have I contested that people hold different opinions on these matters, or generally conceal very different concepts beneath their terms. But, as much as you liberals hate the fact, truth is not relative and nor is it indeterminate.

    And consequently you are a liberal.

    Human equality is not an idea of tradition. Quite the opposite in fact. Tradition does not even consider the equalities you imply in your racialist version of liberalism.

    Humanity, being an abstract, hasn't any and can form no opinions. People on the other hand have most certainly not done as claimed in your insane liberal blabbering. Historically, people have reared their children according to the ways of the culture in which they lived. Civilised societies, in which intellectual questions of the political inevitably revolve around how those who are ordained to rule can best rule, know nothing about today's politicised notions of "political systems" and its endless debates. As for the question of to how to worship, you are showing just how much of a nutcase you are when the ancient world did not even distinguish between the secular and the sacred and for which politics and law and culture and religion were not merely inextricably intertwined but generally identical. Yes, yes, and we all know that most people's opinions are all their own ...


    Straw man. What is learned does not begin at home, and now you are going so far as to commit an is-ought fallacy.


    Yes, it is a parent's responsibility to do so. Once more you sidestep the point while offering no absolute basis by which to determine what is proper.

    Ah, here comes the appeal to ones own authority and the ad hominem right on cue.

    Attempting to impose? Are you really such an idiot? I'm not even in a material position to attempt to impose any such thing "on others", and an argument

    Give me a break. What your blessed intellectually evolved society terms "thinking outside the box" is nothing but intellectual anarchy that leads to an inability to think properly at all. Your principles of "free thought", derived once again from liberal philosophers and glorified by the French degenerates of the Englishtenment, ends up precisely where we have ended up today. Clever idiots like Richard Dawkins, who have so much to say about matters which they do not even understand because they have had no instruction in the traditional philosophy of the Church, which itself comes from the Greeks, exemplify this collapse of the intellect in the West.

    Oh get out of here, you presumptuous twat. I follow the dictates of tradition with my eyes wide open. I have passed through nihilism and emerged on the other side with a firm knowledge of my path, based not merely in correct principles of thought but in the certainty of the experience of spiritual revelation. That is something a peasant like, wallowing in your own filth, you could never understand.

    And here we see once again the spirit that lurks behind all of your nihilistic blathering. Your insane valuation of what liberals call freedom in hand, you equate dutiful adherence to the order of tradition and belief in the authority thereof as a kind of mindless slavery if not evil itself. For as much as you'd like to think yourself to be ideologically distant from those whom you would call liberals, you are cut from the same cloth as the worst of them, thinking in accord with the very fundamental ideas that fashion their thought too.
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  16. Celt A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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    Thanks for clearing it all up buddy it all makes sense now.
    Have the best of days! :cheers:
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    the reactionary form of traditionalism does not exhaust the meaning of conservatism; a liberty tempered by self-restraint, sanctioned by tradition, anchored in a transcendent moral order is also a distinguishing feature of the old conservative philosophy.

    there is no contradiction between homeschooling your children and being a good conservative because every man has the right to do as he pleases (do not confuse with license!), provided he does not infringe on the rights of others.
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  18. Not Roland Banned Clancy sock

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    LOL, do you really believe "the king" and "the priesthood" have ever been God's "spokesmen?" What seems more likely to you, that they actually are what they claim to be re: having a direct connection to God, or they just said that to justify their power? If the former, are you gullible, stupid or delusional?
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  19. Akingu "Your Assholiness"

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    Poor Poete...all dressed up like a clown and no birthday parties to go to.
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  20. Akingu "Your Assholiness"

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    Looks like fitz has found a new cock to suck and a new ass to kiss: little Poete! All those years looking for love in the wrong alleys and now, here at TBB, he finds Poete: all alone and pink socked, broken cocked from flogging it too hard and desperate to get back on his knees.
    Ahh yes! true love is in the air...and in this case, it smells of feces and patchouilly.
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