How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

Discussion in 'Religion and Philosophy' started by Greatest I am, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:54 AM.

  1. Greatest I am Active Member

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    How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?



    I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.



    If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for God’s crimes against humanity. This aside.



    I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.



    As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacob’s ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satan’s grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.



    The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.



    The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.



    If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.



    In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.



    I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satan’s hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?



    Regards

    DL
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  2. Giada MAGA

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    I stopped reading after the first short paragraph.
    Christians, Muslims, and Jews, don't belong in the same sentence.
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  3. Greatest I am Active Member

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    All Abrahamic religions belong in a sentence.

    Thanks for the well thought out answer. Oh wait.

    Regards
    DL
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  4. Giada MAGA

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    I'm Christian.

    I am not Muslim.
    I am not Jewish.
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  5. Greatest I am Active Member

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    You are a waste of time if you do not speak to the O.P.

    Regards
    DL
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  6. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    Immoral ways? How does one ignore what isn't there?

    Dumb faggot,
  7. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    No, what caused your extermination were your continued attacks upon Catholic persons and sacred sites and the fact that the state quickly realised that a group of ideologues who taught that procreation is evil, suicide is a sacrament , the state and its laws have no authority, being of the evil material world and that every kind of sexual perversion, so long as it did not lead to the creation of human life, was permissible for those who had not yet chosen to become perfecti, were an existential threat to humanity.
  8. LastChanceArmada Forum Veteran

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    God is not "moral" or "immoral". God is above human value judgments.

    If you look at the Bible it is clear of course that God behaves in seemingly violent or "immoral" ways. Everything is done for the good of the elect. The notion that "God is just LOOOVE, maaaan" is a modern heresy and the more I read the more it seems to me that it wasn't even really much of a notion until post-WWII. Here I would recommend the theologian Gordon Clark's works, especially "Predestination." I would go in more depth but I only have a few minutes right now.
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  9. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    "Moral" and "immoral" are God's value judgments..

    Blah blah, Calvinist heresies from an Anglo-American hick who is as far removed from the thought of the ancient Hebrews and Apsotolic Christians as a country and western song is from a Byzantine chant.

    What a pity we didn't kill more of you when we had the chance.
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  10. Poète Maudit Decadent

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    There is no more "depth" to your theology: it's a self-contradictory and tautologous pile of steaming dogshit that wants to hold humans accountable for "sin" as free moral agents while denying them any free moral agency, claim God is not evil when due to absolute determinism he is the efficient and final cause of all evil, and define "good" as anything that God wills, not because God is good, but because "good" is anything that God wills. Retarded is what you are, both in your incapacity for logicla htought as well as in your willingess to serve such a diabolically capricious creature when you can't even be sure that you are among his "elect". Calvin's "God": the being who creates billions of humans for the express PURPOSE of torturing them eternity in Hell.
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  11. Greatest I am Active Member

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    Poète Maudit

    Thanks for showing your level of intelligence in post 6.

    Regards
    DL
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  12. Greatest I am Active Member

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    Poète Maudit

    Your post 7 is full of lies.

    Is that all you have?

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    DL
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  13. Greatest I am Active Member

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    LastChanceArmada

    Oh my. A reasoned answer.

    I had just about given up on finding a decent moral person here.

    Regards
    DL
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  14. Greatest I am Active Member

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    "Moral" and "immoral" are God's value judgments..

    That is not what scriptures say, but then you would need to read your bible to know that.


    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
    You do not think and do not test the way scriptures urge you to.

    Regards
    DL
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  15. Giada MAGA

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    The bible was written by man with a dash of their politics involved.
  16. Greatest I am Active Member

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    Giada

    A dash?

    Constantine forced that stupid Trinity concept down Christianity's throat and made that immoral substitutionary punishment doctrine a part of Christianity.

    That is a lot more than a dash.

    As an aside, I cannot get the quote function working. Is there a secret or is it my computer?
    I have tried all the trick I know. Please help if you can.

    Regards
    DL
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  17. LastChanceArmada Forum Veteran

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    Wow, looks like our resident mentally unstable pottymouthed Papist poo-flinger has managed to make thinly veiled death threats to me because of my perceived "Calvinist" beliefs &/or because I question the veracity of bowing down to a homosexual in a funny hat (aka the Pope -- at least, assuming that you're actually real, and not just another carefully constructed "persona" slash sockpuppet that's in no small amount around here.) Is your behavior representative of all Catholics? (Funny thing, I actually considered conversion a number of years ago, and I'm not exactly regretting my decision to abstain after reading this.) You're clearly not wishing to engage in anything resembling productive dialogue here, and between your "30 Years' War meets Tourette's Syndrome" shtick and Internet Tough Guy threats of implied violence you'll surely understand that I need to put you on ignore (but don't worry, I'll make a note of it at the confession booth this week.) However, I have included a Halloween costume suggestion next year, as you are apparently interested in making Catholics look as bad as humanly possible:

    [IMG]
    Now, with that out of the way, to return to the subject (if this thread is even salvagable after Father Lenny Bruce's previous intervention here): my views on this subject are actually based on the initial assumption that there is an omnipotent God. Whether or not you want to make this initial assumption is, of course, up to you, but that's the intital assumption from which all derivations follow.

    If there is an omnipotent God, supreme intelligence, or whatever you want to call it -- then God is really truly and totally OMNIPOTENT. We simply cannot even begin to fathom what this omnipotence truly means as it is so all-encompassing that we can only glimpse a fraction of it at best, but it means that there is not one person, living or dead, that God does not know the exact count of the number of hairs on their head! Most people (myself included) really struggle with this notion of omnipotence because it's so outside of our shallow human understanding.

    Of course, you can argue that there isn't a God (which is a different discussion) or, as a lot of moderns are prone to do, try to weasel out of the implications of a truly all-encompassing, omnipotent God with (IMHO, lame) digressions about "quantum physics" or Enlightenment era theological half-assery like Deism. I find all of this completely unconvincing. God cannot be anything but completely omnipotent, omnipresent, and infused into absolutely every atom of existence; God does not just do some random thing over here or over there under kind of on a whim every once in a while when He gets bored.

    So to get back to your initial question: the fact is that you need to get over your earthly ideas of what God is. Even a cursory look at human history reveals that there are no small amount of seemingly "unexplainable" or "pointless" tragedies and that all of existence can be labeled essentially tragic without too much trouble. This causes a lot of people to reject God since they either think that this proves that He doesn't exist, but (again) you just need to get over your limited understanding of what God is and how he operates in the world. If you read the Clark book I mentioned earlier, it's clear that God causes a lot of "bad" or "evil" things to happen in the Bible. (Note that I am not a practicing Christian, at least, I don't typically go to church more than once a month [and it's a "social niceties" thing I do with my elderly parents. If I could find a church like, say, Wesley Swift's old church, I'd love to go regularly since I am a "theist" but I only accept or reject the Bible inasmuch as it jibes with eternal historical and spiritual truth and is primordial, if highly corrupted, Aryan wisdom and metahistory. However, my general view on the Bible is that it contains a lot of wisdom and has stood the test of time for centuries and probably isn't going anywhere.)

    Most people reject the notion of God's omnipotency mixed with the seeming fact that reality is not necessarily nice or pleasant because they don't "like" it. I agree, it is not flattering to the human condition, and doesn't appear to make "sense". I don't particularly "like" it myself because it is far from flattering to me personally. Most choose to reject all of the unpleasant implications of all of this but I dunno, you know... I can obviously only speak for myself personally here, since everyone is on their own subjective path and everyone has to understand things in their own context and integrate it with their own understanding, but I struggled with "free will" for a good 20 years before I finally came out on the side of predestination.

    Really, at the end of the day, all of this will always be outside the purview of normal human understanding, so the only thing that really matters is how it affects your life on a day to day basis. The fact is, I've just come to accept that everything is largely scripted and outside of my personal control, although I do attempt to live a "moral" life as much as humanly possible there are just a lot of things that are seemingly senseless and my desire for personal control and to "have it all make sense" revolts against it. But as far as trying to reconcile the truth of what reality is -- almost incomprehensibly brutal for most people -- with God (who we are told is just "love" by some people) well, there's no "reconciliation" necessary between God and reality.
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  18. Greatest I am Active Member

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    LastChanceArmada

    You should look at other religions more.

    If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all.
    -Anon

    You seem to think you cannot understand things.

    You say there is wisdom in scriptures. Dither out the wisdom in this verse.

    Gen 3;22
    And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

    If Adam and Eve could do it, why do you think you cannot?

    We Gnostic Christians know we can. Seek Gnosis and so will you when you find it

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Regards
    DL

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  19. Bluto Drunken lout

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  20. The Bobster Forum Veteran

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    Hmmm, it works for me. Maybe God hates you.
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